Movies!

We're joined by UW Tacoma Associate Professor David Coon and Destiny City Film Festival's Executive Director Emily Nakada-Alm to discuss how movies play a part in shaping our culture, and the way our social identities are reflected in and affected by the movies we watch. We'll also talk about film festivals as an important format for storytelling outside of the media industry, as well as what makes a movie "good." 

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

People are taking a chance on it too. They don't know how it's going to make them feel. They don't know how they're going to, you know, look at parts of the community after they see the movie. But just seeing people come out and, and kind of give them some themselves up to that, like you're saying, the possibilities. Um, that's, that's really important to do I think

Speaker 2: 0:22

from UDaB Tacoma, this is pod defiance. Welcome to pod defiance where we don't lecture, but we do educate. I'm your host Sarah Smith, and today on the pod movies we're discussing how movies play a part in shaping our culture and the way our social identities are reflected in an effected by the movies we watch. We'll also talk about film festivals as an important format for storytelling outside of the media industry as well as what makes a movie good.

Speaker 1: 0:56

And today I'm here with Emily and NACADA ALM from the destiny city film festival. Welcome Emily. Thank you so much. And I'm also here with associate professor David Kuhn from the university of Washington Tacoma. Welcome. Hi. Thanks for having me. Yeah, thanks for coming on. Emily. Let's start with you. We've got a big event coming up this weekend. Do you want to introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about the film festival? Definitely. Yeah. Um, so the seventh annual destiny city film festivals coming up this weekend, as you mentioned, February 28th through March 1st. Um, it'll be exciting to have it on a leap here, you know, just an whole new experience for us. Um, and it's a three day event of independent films that we received from all over the world and a lot of local films too, like yours that we'll be including. Um, we also have a women in film panel that's free, um, some free family programming, kind of something for everybody. Um, come see some movies this weekend and you know, we're excited to, to have the community come out and give it a chance to give their films a chance and meet some filmmakers to have Q and A's, which will be great. And, uh, opening night we're having live music and so it's gonna be a fun weekend and we'll have to see. I'll come. No, I'll second that. Yeah, definitely a good idea to go out and you know, see films that are playing in the, in the local area, in, in special venues and in, uh, special contexts. And, and whether it's this film festival or any other festivals that come through the area, uh, I think a lot of people because of it, because the festival happens at one time only, you know, we often forget to build that into the schedule and it's easier to just be in it. I'll watch something on Netflix later, but the festivals that come or the films that come through festivals often won't show up there. So your chance to see it is at the festival. So I would encourage people to make that a priority whenever they can. Cool. How did the film festival start? So, um, I studied communication studies, emphasis and media and film at university, Puget sound. And senior year I got an internship, the Grant's cinema, uh, who also runs to come up film festival. And in my five years I was there, um, worked my way up to director of Tacoma film festival. And then I wanted to branch out and see what else was out there in the world to do and experience and, um, landed in another arts job and then miss the film festival aspects so much that I decided to found destiny city, um, film festival. And here we are in our seventh year. So what would you say kind of sets this destiny city film festival apart from other festivals in the area? That's a great question. I mean, we are, we just always really focused on providing programming for everybody. Something for everybody that they can experience. Um, we have a laid back, accessible kind of, uh, nature about the festival and we just want people to have fun. We do focus whole a whole lot on the impact of storytelling since we also run a screenplay competition. It'd be kind of focused on the importance and power of story telling and, and how sharing our stories with each other makes us a stronger community. And so we see that happen every year with people coming in, even if they don't, if they come by themselves, but they get experience new stories, um, onscreen, um, you know, with their community. So we find that pretty powerful experience. Cool. I'm looking forward to it. Do you want to introduce yourself, David, and tell us a little bit about what you do?

Speaker 3: 4:25

Sure. Uh, so again, my name is David Coon and I'm a associate professor of film and media studies at university of Washington Tacoma. And um, I have a background in media production, uh, before I went into academia. So I'm really interested in both the production side and the kind of critical studies side that usually goes with more academic approaches to things. I teach a range of classes related to both film and television and also some advertising and video production. So I have a wide range of interests, things that I like to do and I'm particularly interested in film festivals as well, uh, as a, just as a, as an audience member, but also as a kind of a, I enjoy studying them as a kind of cultural, um, phenomenon. Basically, so,

Speaker 1: 5:09

yeah. Can you talk a little bit about that then? What, um, what tends to film festival apart from a typical movie going experience?

Speaker 3: 5:17

I think sort of the main thing that, that, or that I see that's really valuable about a film festival is the community aspect of it. That, um, whether it's just sort of pulling together members of the community, sort of based on geography or based on identity. I mean there's, there's festivals for, you know, a lesbian and gay film festivals or Latino film festivals or festivals built around, uh, ideas like social justice. But then you have like the, like the Tacoma film festival in the destiny city film festival that really kind of pull on the local community and just the way that the festival brings people together. Uh, there tends to be more conversation I think around the films and interaction than you typically typically get with most kind of wide releases that the, you know, the Megaplex where maybe you go, you watch the film, you leave, but at a festival there always seems to be that interaction and just brings people together in a way that other kinds of film viewing usually don't.

Speaker 2: 6:12

Looking through the brochure for destiny city, it, I mean there seems to be a lot of stories, kinds of stories that you wouldn't necessarily see, you know, in mainstream media. Right. It's more about keep making sure like something for families. Obviously something for younger generation, maybe college students. Um, you know, and just kind of thinking about who are the people in this community and providing an accessible experience for them, um, that they won't find anywhere else. I took your class, David, when I first came to, you'd have to come on. That was one of my first classes. Uh, film, film studies, two 20. Right. Something like that. Something like that. Which was great. I really enjoyed it. It was fun to, to sit and analyze movies. I, I never realized how much I enjoyed doing that. And now I feel like I can't watch a movie without giving it a good semiotic analysis. Um, and I did my job. That's right. David, I in your class, I remember we, we, you talked a lot about looking at the way our social identities are reflected in films and then how those, you know, how movies essentially can have also have an impact on our, um, ourselves. Can you, can you talk a little bit about that and help me unpack that, although I'm sure I could talk a lot about a lot of time

Speaker 3: 7:31

that is sort of the, the centerpiece of, of the work that I usually do and in both my research and my teaching. So there's a lot there, certainly. But I think one piece that stands out to me as most interesting, I guess is the way that that film and other forms of popular media and popular culture, uh, but film being one of the prominent ones gives us sort of possible versions of what we might be and what other people might be that we, you know, that it goes beyond just our own personal interactions and we see other possibilities out there. And when there are limited representations, uh, in the mainstream media that we see, it limits our sort of understanding of what possibilities are out there for us in terms of who we might grow up to be, what jobs we might take, how we might act as citizens. So on and so forth. And so again, there's sometimes there's limitations to that, but then when films come along that really open up possibilities and provide new imagery and a new new ideas for people, I think that helps folks to discover parts of themselves that maybe they didn't really even know existed or new possibilities as to what they can do, what they can become and new understandings of what other people can do and what they can become. So that to me is, I think one of the most interesting aspects is just that presentation of possible identities and possible selves.

Speaker 2: 8:51

What do you think it is that makes a movie effective beyond, you know, just a format. What, what makes, uh, what sparks people to, I guess, pay attention and talk about it? What are those magic ingredients?

Speaker 3: 9:04

I think the, with respect to, you know, films that maybe do spark people to make a change in their lives or to do something in the world that the ones that really do that are the ones that grab people emotionally. I mean, it's, it's one thing to have an intellectual, logical, reasoned conversation about something. But when a film can really get to the emotional center of it and make you feel something, I think you're more likely to then actually take action or change your way of thinking or change the way you do things in the world. And so I think one of the film's greatest powers is the ability to reach people emotionally as well as intellectually. But, but those two pieces going together is what's really strong. What do you think it is? You know, because there's obviously

Speaker 2: 9:48

different formats. There's, you know, for communicating emotionally, you know, radio books, what is it about movies that kind of sets it apart?

Speaker 3: 10:00

It gets to us in multiple ways. And that's something that, I mean, there are other art forms that do that, certainly. But, and when you think of, for example, being in a, in a movie theater and you know, a really good sound system and a very large screen and darkened environment, we kind of isolate those senses of, of, uh, seeing and hearing and, and that really, I think it helps to allow a story to get to us on a level that other forms of storytelling may not accomplish and other environments even for watching. So there is a big difference in watching a film in a darkened theater versus watching it on your phone in terms of how it's going to hit you emotionally and the response you're going to have to it. Have you watched the David Lynch short with the black and white? I haven't. I added it to my queue after you mentioned it to me and I haven't seen it yet.

Speaker 2: 10:48

Have you seen it? No. Oh man, it's on Netflix. It's worth it. Yeah. Well, well it depends on how much, you know, it's an experience for sure. And it'll definitely, it wasn't an immersive experience. I was sitting there going, what? What is passive? Well, it was more like, um, how do I, how do you describe it, where you kind of sit outside of yourself and you're sort of analyzing what's happening while you're watching it. And so just getting fully immersed in it, which I think is what he intended, but it was, yeah, but it was, it was definitely a, you know, it's an experience. Right. So, but David, can you tell us a little bit about, uh, AMC and communication at UDaB Tacoma and I guess talk a little bit more about the classes we offer.

Speaker 3: 11:35

Sure. Uh, so yeah, for, for students who are interested in and studying or making films, uh, there's kind of two routes that they could take. There's the arts media and culture major that has a track in film and media studies. And in that major, the, the bulk of the work is on the critical studies side of things and really, uh, looking at films, uh, for their formal and aesthetic qualities, but also studying kind of the messages and the ideological, uh, impact of the films. So there's films that, uh, focus on, again, some aesthetic qualities, films that study genres or that study the work of, of notable directors, uh, or that look at theory and um, kind of theory and aesthetics. But then there's also, we offer a variety of classes about, uh, gender and sexuality and film or disability in film or feminist approaches to film and literature. And so there's a variety of ways that students can approach the study of film. And then within the communication major, uh, many of those film classes also, uh, are kind of a part of that major. But then students in that program can also do some more hands on work in video production classes and get a chance to actually make some of their own, uh, short films, uh, and kind of emphasize the, the process of writing and shooting and editing, uh, the projects and students. We find that that, uh, kind of often blend the two, either double major or take classes in one while majoring in the other. And, uh, they, they work pretty well together in terms of blending the critical studies with the hands on product.

Speaker 1: 13:15

Yeah. And that was sort of how I ended up here was taking those classes and trying to figure out where exactly I was headed when I graduated and I took documentary production last year and then that's, so I have a piece to the destiny city film festival. Then he made a documentary. Yeah. It's that easy. Oh no. I was chatting with another friend about how much work goes into shooting and editing a 10 minute, you know, video, video piece and how that, that part's hidden, but it's, you know, it's, it's really just a labor of a labor of love. Right. So, and I, that's another thing I love about putting on a film festival is honoring all that time and work that filmmakers have put into it and giving them their chance to talk about it and to meet other filmmakers and to learn and get even better. Um, that's another huge piece about twin bustles. So I'm excited about that this weekend. Yeah. And what are some of the, the movies that you're excited to, to show this weekend? This is the hardest question. I know we have 34 films, so they're all amazing and they are obviously, um, I'm excited about our, so for closing night, and this is the first year we're doing shorts package, um, we've usually done a feature film in the past, um, but every year we've had this store's package that's called the stories we tell. And it's just very unique and intimate stories of all kinds and different people from around the world and topics and whatnot. Um, and so I chose that for closing night this year. I think it's just like a great way to, to wrap it up and show many examples of, you know, great storytelling. And, um, I always love the family shorts cause seeing little ones, you know, look up at the movie screen with just like, it's a magical experience. You can see it and you know, for younger generations to experience that earlier in life, I think, um, it's good for if movies. Yeah, that's just a couple, but all of them are worth it, I'd say. I mean, you have an Oscar winner. We do. Yeah. It's actually the final film that we'll play. Um, as part of the closing night shorts, it's called the neighbor's window and it won best live action short thumb this year. So we're excited about that. Yeah, it's a new thing for us and we just tell people like it. Am I allowed to ask Emily a question? Of course you are with a film like that that you were just mentioning in terms of how it got incorporated into the festival. Was that different? Did they submit it or did you go after it? That's one that I went after. It's a mix every year. Um, but always we're honoring the folks that want to have their film at our festival and making sure that, you know, they're given, um, consideration and priority. But you know, it's, it's nice to have some of those Keystone films that you can talk about and people will latch onto something about them. Just kind of builds a good foundation for the week long festival or the three day festival, not a week. Can you talk a little bit about that process, I guess about how, how you put a film festival together? Well, I start like a month after the festival ends. Yeah. Yeah. Then just, you know, assess what went well, what didn't, what can we improve on, choose the dates obviously. Um, and then start posting our call for entries. And I have a team of screeners, um, a lot of vocal folks, but a few that I've got connected with throughout the country and they, I assign them movies and they watch them on their own time when they provide really detailed great feedback. Um, and then the screeners, what kind of people who have studied film, people who consider themselves cinephiles, you know, who have gone to movies in their whole lives and that's just, they just love doing that. And so I have a new name for myself. Essentially. You can, yeah, you can take that Netflix file. Anything that gets played in the festival is something that I've seen and I see the value in adding to the lineup. David, have you ever screened for film festivals? I have not. Is that something you'd ever want to do? Yes, actually it is a, I know, certainly with, uh, with some festivals it's a huge time commitment and so that's part of why I haven't, I haven't done it yet, haven't had the time to do it, but I do hope someday to be able to do that. The closest I've come was, uh, as a judge for a film festival. So after they had been selected,

Speaker 3: 17:50

then it was a matter of the festival director choosing a few to kind of be in competition for a certain prizes. So that was, it was already narrowed down so it wasn't so many to screen and they were already good enough that they had gotten into the festivals. So there wasn't even any waiting through, uh, some that were less than successful. And um, but so that, that was a really interesting process to, to then have discussions with the other judges about, okay, how do we choose best of these three when they're so different? They're going in different directions, they're accomplishing different things. How do you measure and, and to, to compare. And so that was pretty eye opening too, just to, to have those conversations about, you know, something that is so subjective and it's rooted in aesthetics and how do you determine good, better and best. I'm sure there were plenty of times that we made decisions that the audience would have disagreed with or, uh, that the filmmakers would have disagreed with and that that's part of what, what film is about is that it, it starts a debates rather than just presenting something that everyone agrees on. It's, it's a, it's a conversation piece I guess. Yeah. So how do you yeah, what was the criteria? How did you sort of come to a decision? What were the things you talked about? I think, um, in some cases we, we, we did talk about sort of aesthetic accomplishments and, and um, just sort of the techniques involved in, in creating imagery you or achievement in kind of the sound design. But at the same time, I think we also talked about the messages behind films and films that really seemed to have something to say and something that was perhaps important to say at that moment in time. A lot of times, you know, something, it, it has its, its moment when it is just the right time for that film and that story and that even five years later or five years earlier, the film would have not the same impact. So that was something else we, we discussed was kind of the messages in films and then, but then how well they were executed and how clearly the message came through. But again, as I recall in the conversations, we didn't always agree. So we might have, we might land on the same criteria and then one person's as well, no, it was really great at that. And somebody else says, no, it wasn't. So getting a consensus as a challenge, well, how do you select what to show in class? Is it that same sort of, you're looking for that evergreen kind of movie has a lasting impact or, um, I mean in some cases sort of, I mean, it depends on the particular class, but, but in any given class, I'm certainly looking for films that will demonstrate very clearly whatever concept it is we want to be talking about at a given time. So, um, whether that's a formal, an aesthetic element or a, uh, a message that's coming through, but definitely a film that is going to exhibit what we want to talk about. Uh, but then also in putting together sort of the overall mix films for a particular class, I'm looking for a range of storytelling styles and range of, uh, storytellers and representations and trying to, there's never, there's never a way of, in one class capturing everybody's experience that's not realistic, but to at least try to get a range of different experiences so that a lot of people in the class will feel like some aspect of themselves is reflected in the films we watch. That's important to me as well. So sometimes that then means maybe choosing a film that isn't as well known or isn't necessarily regarded in the industry as being excellent, but because of the importance of the story, it's telling that maybe trumps some of those other issues. So there's a lot of pieces that go into making those decisions.

Speaker 1: 21:33

Is there a favorite one that you'd like to show to the class? Let's see.

Speaker 3: 21:39

Uh, I think one of my favorites to screen, uh, for students is the German film run, Lola run. Uh, typically when I show it, most of the students have not seen it. So it's new for people and it's very unlike most films that they have seen. So it's, uh, surprising in a lot of ways. Uh, it's another one that can be polarizing. I've had people who love it and people who hate it, but everyone seems to feel pretty strongly about it one way or another. And that is always interesting to me.

Speaker 1: 22:11

Emily, have you had an experience like that at the film festival where you screened something that really got people talking or was especially impactful? Yeah. Um, actually a few years ago, uh, we played a documentary called the blood is at the doorstep and it was about, um, a young man who was shot and killed by police in Minnesota or Wisconsin, I'm sorry, can't remember. Um, and a young man of color and, uh, his mother actually was able to fly out, um, for the screening. And so she talked, I was just like, you can talk over how much you want. Um, you know, just being able to have that conversation and from her firsthand experience, um, was something I'll never forget. It was amazing just to see how ma, how much people wanted to continue talking to her in the lobby tune. You know, it's just that, that's part of why I do the film festival is to create those opportunities and chances for people to ask questions about things they don't know about. Um, and get to know the experiences of people they don't know. Um, so that we can, we can get to know each other better. Yeah. That was, it was, we were very fortunate for to have her and to have that movie so well that right there is a big difference between going to see a big blockbuster film festival. You get to write perhaps a richer experience and a lot of ways. Sure. And I mean people are taking a chance on it too. They don't know how it's gonna make them feel. They don't know how they're gonna, you know, look at parts of the community after they see the movie. But just seeing people come out and, and kind of give them some themselves up to that, like you're saying the possibilities. Um, that's, that's really important to do I think. Let's talk a little bit about students and student filmmakers then, because as a student filmmaker, what advice do you have, I guess for, for student filmmakers, if, if any, if, if maybe they've produced something that they're really excited about at school and you know, getting their, their work out there. I, you know, I submitted and was excited about, I felt like the last step in making a movie was showing it to an audience. And that's sort of like the, in a sense why I made the film. I want to, I wanted to say something to tell a story and I wanted people to be able to see it and respond to it. So what, what sort of advice would you have? Well, I think the reason you know why we ended up selecting your film is because I could tell that you are passionate about this story and you had a connection to it. And so I would suggest for young people that want to make films to make sure they have a full vision of what they want to do, they feel passionate about it and they're not going to give up. You know, if, if for some reason don't get into a film festival that you submitted to finding other ways to get it shown, even if it's with your classmates or your family or because bringing those other perspective perspectives onto what you've been so close to can only help you get better. And you mentioned film freeway is a good place to kind of look around and see. Yup. Yup. Um, our festival and a lot of others either have free or discounted submission rates for students. Um, so to keep an eye out for those, for sure. And David, I'll ask you the same question. Emily kind of stole my answer.

Speaker 3: 25:40

Say it was two, two in the early stages of it. So you have to select something that you are passionate about and excited about because that's going to make the film better. It's gonna translate through to the audience. Uh, and that's, I think really the key to making a good film that is going to land in a festival is if, cause if you're not excited about it, you can't expect anyone else to be excited about it. So I think a mistake that some people might make is choosing a topic because they're anticipating someone else will want to watch it and then they're not invested in it and the whole thing just doesn't come together. So I think that personal investment is really key

Speaker 1: 26:14

and a good story.[inaudible] I can just say from my perspective, it feels a lot different to make something that you're really passionate about, that you care about and following that story as opposed to making something because you just need to make something or somebody paid you to make it or, right. It's a, it's a totally different experience. So, well then yeah, if you have that mindset, the folks who you bring on to help make the project with you are going to soak that up too. And it's just going to make it even better. So it's essential. All right, so I'm going to ask one more question and we talked about how, you know, everybody's got their own opinions, but I would love to hear what your favorite movie is and what your least favorite movie is and maybe tell us why man. The movie, I remember watching when I was growing up, the movie that kind of changed my perspective on the world and about the power of films and then the film that I've seen most recently that sticks out to me. So, um, this is hokey, but home alone too on this one. I watched all the time with my sister and I was young. It's that, it's that aesthetic memory that you watch it and you just remember what it was like, um, with your family. Um, and then next I'd say lost in translation. That's kind of always my go-to favorite. It's just, I just, I, I love that movie. I just, the performances and the unique story, um, makes it kind of timeless I think. And then most recently, uh, I would definitely say queen and slim, it came and came and went real quickly in the theaters. And that was a shame and I think it should have gotten a lot more recognition that the screenplay was just incredible and the acting was, uh, so dynamic and just the story of those two characters together and how they grew was something I've never seen in a movie before. So if you get the chance to see it, I'd recommend it least favorite. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh gosh, that's important too. Um, Oh, I think I blocked them out of my mind if I don't like that. But one that I, I can remember watching, I was like, what? Why? What is all the buzz about? This was Lala land. Oh, I know. Oh my God. I really did not enjoy it and feel so good to hear someone else say that out loud. I was afraid you were going to see if someone, one of you had to say to you loved it, but then we'd have a discussion about it. Right. So yeah, it was, I thought it was overrated. Yeah, I really didn't like it. I like, I mean, those old Hollywood movies with the singing and dancing, I mean they're hokey, but I enjoy them. But they was like trying fell flat for me. It was trying and, yeah. Yes, yup, yup. Yeah. Well we all agree on that. Yeah. Yeah. Common ground. What about you, David?

Speaker 3: 29:12

So for me, definitely favorites kind of change based on my mood. Depending on the day, I may have a different favorite, but I'm thinking some along the lines of kind of Emily's comments. Certainly a film that from my earliest days, I mean the first film I remember falling in love with that I still very much enjoy as the Muppet movie. Um, yeah. And it's a, there's something that it's kind of my engagement within has evolved over the years that certainly there were, there were jokes that I didn't get. One, I was watching it as a kid that I, you know, eventually learned to understand and uh, grew to appreciate the celebrity cameos in ways that I didn't when I was a child. And so the, the film has kind of changed over the years, but I still love it very much. Um, another one that, uh, really kind of, I don't know, connected on an emotional level for me was Edward Scissorhands. Uh, and it's, it's one of one of the few, I guess I don't tend to get very emotional at movies. Um, particularly if I'm seeing it in the theater with friends. I try to hold my emotions in check. And that came out, I think it was in high school and saw it with a couple of friends and was having a real hard time not tearing up. I fought valiantly, but I don't think I succeeded. Uh, there's something about that one that just, that gets me. Um, and then I guess another that that reaches, uh, me in a different way is David Lynch's Mulholland drive. It's one that I, the first time I saw it, I walked out of the theater thinking like feeling like I had no idea what happened, but I didn't care cause I really enjoyed the ride and uh, in times I've seen it since then, it's, that's kind of my same responses that I just enjoy the experience of watching it even though I find it still somewhat confusing. Um, I don't care cause I really liked the two and a half hours of listening to it and looking at it. So, Oh yeah. At least favorite. Uh, I'm sure you have the sort of, there are some that I've just forgotten because they were so unmemorable. So kind of like the LA LA land one, one that sort of stands out because other people really like it and I don't. Uh, and as a, as a film scholar, I should probably like it and I understand its historical importance, but I do not enjoy citizen Kane. Uh, I, I still make my students watch it cause it is important, but I don't like it and I don't expect them to like it necessarily either. I think there's a difference between valuing a film's accomplishments and actually enjoying it. I don't like that one, you know? Fair. So

Speaker 2: 31:46

that's hard, you know, that's asking me, that's like asking me which of my children is my favorite. Not really. Um, I have always loved when Harry met Sally and I thought maybe I hadn't watched it for, I was watching it like every year and then I hadn't watched it for awhile and I thought maybe it's not my favorite anymore. So I watched it again and I was like, no, this is still my favorite. This is not gonna be anybody else's favorite, but one that I really liked visually. Like I liked just looking at, it was a promethium[inaudible] and I just remember I saw it in, um, IMAX in the IMAX theater. That was definitely the way to experience it. I saw, you know, I went back and watched it later, like, I dunno, probably on my phone and it didn't have the same impact. It was kind of a terrible movie and a lot of ways, but it was really beautiful and that sort of IMEX experience. And then since we talked about nostalgic movies, E T is a big tear-jerker for me. I don't know, I'm sure there's so many least favorite movies, maybe like the 300, you know, which I can appreciate, but so many people love that one and I just really have a hard time being in the room when it's on. All right, well thank you both for joining me today. Thanks for inviting me.

Speaker 4: 33:08

Yeah,

Speaker 2: 33:11

thank you to our guests and thank you for listening. Be sure to like and subscribe. You can find us on Spotify, Google podcasts, PocketCasts, Stitcher and Apple podcasts.